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Today’s conversation turned out to be some of the most practical, actionable advice we’ve ever given on the AYG podcast.

Ryan Snow is a #1 best-selling author, sales leader, business coach, and teacher. With extensive experience in the classroom and many years of work as a coach and mentor, his mission is to help people achieve extraordinary results in life, and in sales, through personal and professional development.

Furthermore, Ryan inspired me to write The Miracle Morning book series—and for that, I’m forever indebted to him. Together, we co-authored The Miracle Morning for Salespeople, and Ryan has since been offering hugely popular workshops based on the book all over the country.

Today, Ryan joins the podcast for a deep dive into his 5 Gs of Goal Setting. We talk about dreaming big, setting yourself up for future success (especially if you don’t love what you’re doing right now), and how to conquer your bad habits through accountability.


  • How to redefine your future and start doing what you truly love to do.
  • The #1 mistake people make when setting goals—and how not to fall into this common trap.
  • Why leadership helps to make and keep us accountable.
  • What to do when you don’t meet your goals—and how to tap into your best habits to overcome setbacks.


[ctt template=”12″ link=”80Yux” via=”yes” ]If you make the pain of punishment for not achieving your goal bigger than the pain of doing the activity in order to hit your goal, you’re going to hit your goal every time. – Ryan Snow[/ctt]


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COMMENT QUESTION: What is your big takeaway? Write it in the comments below.


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Hal: Ryan Snow. Man, so tell me where you guys went for the last this recent trip.


Ryan: Yeah. So, we just got back from Cabo San Lucas.


Hal: Nice. I love Cabo. We actually had a timeshare. We go out there every other year I think, every other year. So, you’re down there with Marylin and then who else? The M1 Crew?


Ryan: So, the M1 Group, the breakoff sort of from GoBundance and like a group coaching program that I’m part of. We stayed in this huge $12 million mansion. There’s like 30 of us in the house right on the coast like built into the side of a cliff. The place was amazing.


Hal: Wow. That’s epic. That is epic. Wow. $12 million mansion. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a $12 million mansion. That’s pretty cool. So, you give a talk down there?


Ryan: I did. Yeah. I gave a talk on clarity of vision actually. I’m going to talk a little bit about what we might touch base on today.


Hal: Nice. So, for those listening, this is Ryan Snow that I’m talking with here. Ryan Snow is the co-author with yours truly of the Miracle Morning for Salespeople. And, Ryan, you probably heard me reference before, he’s not just a co-author. He’s literally although he is not, well, he’s the idea guy. He’s the guy that called me and said, “Hal, have you ever thought to do a book series for the Miracle Morning?” and I was like, “I haven’t thought about it. Why? Why do you ask?” And he said, you can tell me if I get this wrong, Ryan, but I think you basically said, “Since I’ve read the Miracle Morning sort of implementing it, my sales have increased, and I’ve taught it with my sales team. And all of my sales team that’s read the book and implemented the Miracle Morning, their sales have increased. So, you should do like a customized version for salespeople with unique affirmations and this and that,” And I said, “Dude, you want to co-author with me? Let’s do it. That’s a cool idea.” That’s about literally how the Miracle Morning book series was born. So, Ryan, I will be forever indebted to you for that spark that you had, man.


Ryan: Yeah. No, and I to you for making me the co-author on the book and what a ride it has been. It’s been great. Now, I’m running around teaching that class and doing the one-day Miracle Morning for Salespeople workshop all over the place so…


Hal: So, you’re now like required. You’re going to be required to like scale, right? You’ve got to bring on other teachers, trainers to teach it because you’re in too much demand, too many requests?


Ryan: Yeah. That’s the thing. So, I was doing one a month last year and I had a full-time job. I was running a KW office at the time and I recently quit that job in November of 2017 so I’ve been traveling around doing three or four of this a month and we’ve got more people asking to do them and I committed to my wife that I would only travel one week out of a month so I could spend time with the family and so, yeah, now we’re actually hiring other trainers to be able to expand the program.


Hal: Crazy man. Congrats. That’s exciting. Super exciting. So, today we’re going to talk about the five Gs of goalsetting and being that it’s the Achieve Your Goals Podcast, this is a very targeted discussion that we’re going to have today. Five Gs of goal setting. Give a little bit on your background in terms of when did you start setting goals? Was this like something you learned from your father or mother as a child when you were setting goals or was it something that you learned when you were in sales or when did you really become a goal setter and a goal achiever?


Ryan: Yeah. So, I think that my parents always sort of just held high standards. I don’t know if it was particularly goals but – so I always held high standards for myself and I don’t know if I called them goals until maybe when I got my college age and started with Cutco. Right around the time you and I met is probably when I started like writing down specific things that I would call goals and going after them. So, at least the last like 18 years or so I’ve been doing this but unofficially I would say since I was like a teenager probably.


Hal: Right on, man. Right on. You obviously achieved some extraordinary goals personally and professionally from when you were doing it when you were with KBW and then now branching off and doing your own things and creating, co-authoring the book and then creating the workshops and this and that. So, let’s dive in. So, the five Gs of goal setting you can set the stuff any way you want or I want to know what the first G is. I’m curious. It’s like when you learn, well, I think that’s why the four Ps of productivity or the five Gs of goal setting like I think is so effective because our brain opens that loop that we want closed like, “Dude, what’s the first one? What’s the next one? I need to know all five.” So, let’s dive in. What’s the first G of goal setting?  


Ryan: Yeah. I love it. It makes them easy to remember too sort of like the SAVERS do for the Miracle Morning. So, the first one is grand vision is the first one. So, I think of grand vision sort of like Simon Sinek’s idea of Start with Why. So, it’s like the underlying theme for most people that what’s most important to them in their life and their business. So, when I’m talking about grand vision it’s usually like it’s when you’re giving yourself permission to dream as big as you possibly can. It’s something that you probably don’t have the plan for how you would actually go about achieving it. It’s just something that you know that you want and it’s important to you. It’s probably years down the road. Maybe five years out, 10 years out.


Hal: So, yeah, this is a great point. I had a friend yesterday that called me for just kind of some like big picture just life and business advice and he’s very successful. I think he’s doing like $2 million a year in revenue in his business that he started from scratch and very successful. Makes a great income but he just realized over the years and I think more and more recently that he is not in love with what he’s doing and I think that a lot of people listening probably could relate to that like work isn’t a means to an end and I think we’ve all been there before and a lot of us are still there where we work to pay the bills but we don’t really love our work. Maybe we even don’t like our work or as far as hate it, but we need a paycheck. We got to put food on the table. We got to pay our rent, our mortgage, etcetera. And so, but he realized he goes, “Man, what’s the point? I’m not enjoying my work which is roughly half of my life,” in terms of how many hours a day he’s at the office. Anyway, long story short, he was talking about like what he needs to do now, and I said, “I think we need to do now is not worry about what you need to do now. You need to step back and look at what you want to be doing a year from now or three or five or 10 years from now and really just write that get real detailed clarity on that and then work backward to today. And that might mean that you keep doing what you’re doing for the next year or two or whatever to put yourself in position to do what you ultimately want to do.”


But I think that what you’re talking about is so important for us that we often are we’re always focused on the now. We might go with what’s happening today and what’s my life like today? How do I feel about this and this creates stress for me and etcetera, etcetera, versus all right, if life’s not perfect right now that’s okay and how do I want it to be? And stepping back and you called it the grand vision, looking at the grand vision. So, what do you suggest people in terms of making this actionable? Is this writing one, three, five, 10-year vision? What does somebody from this call what do they schedule an hour later today or tonight to do to implement this first G of goal setting?


Ryan: I love that question. Yeah. So, this is actually an exercise that we do in the Miracle Morning workshop with everybody and so the two things we have them do is write “In Five Years” and then just a blank piece of paper and “In 10 Years”. And what I want them to think about is what do they want? How are they going to spend their time? What will their relationships look like? Where will they live? What are their finances going to look like? What will their business look like? Who’s on their team? So, if they run a business, who are they adding to their team? How are they leveraging some of those things that maybe they don’t want to do? It’s not just the people don’t like – some people really like work, but they don’t like the trade-off. They don’t like the priorities they’re giving up in order to have that.


So, I want them to look at all aspects and what’s that look like in five years and what’s that look like in 10 years? And really dig in and get some clarity around. And again, answering this question as if it were in a perfect world because there are so many things that are going to shift and change over the next five years or 10 years that we can’t even comprehend the idea of what we could potentially accomplish in five years or 10 years. So, one of the things in setting this exercise up that I ask people to do is to look back at five years ago or 10 years ago and just ask yourself the question like could you ever imagined that you would’ve grown this much or that things would’ve changed this much since five years ago? Or since 10 years ago? Because a lot of times it’s like incomprehensible the fact that we can grow that much like Bill Gates has that quote, “We always overestimate the change that’s going to occur in the next two years and we underestimated the change that’s going to occur in the next 10.”


Hal: I thought that was Eminem. I’m just kidding. Keep going. No, that’s great. It’s a great point.


Ryan: We don’t want it to stop somebody from going after something bigger just because they don’t necessarily know how they would get there or they’re afraid that it’s too big or too much or that they don’t deserve it yet. We’re just sort of dreaming as big as possible. If they could have everything, what would it look like?


Hal: Yeah. The further out that we go I think the more we could remove our self-imposed limitations because the more there is the whole well, yeah, so 10 years from now, shoot, who knows? What can I do? Maybe I can make millions and millions and millions or I could run a marathon. I could do anything if it’s like one-year goals are – and this is why it’s grand vision step is so important because one-year goals are riddled with self-imposed limitations and rightly so. There’s only so much you can do in one year and to your point, Bill Gates, I guess we overestimate what we can to in a year, underestimate what we can do in ten. I love it, man. All right. So, we got a grand vision, the first G of goal setting. If you’re listening to this, Achieve Your Goals Podcast listeners, goal achievers, obviously do this. Sit down and do this. It’s something we should be doing at least once a year if not regularly just for our mental health and just to get a bigger picture of our future and what’s possible for all of us. So, I love it. All right, man. Keep going.


Ryan: Yeah. So, number two is goals. So, in goal setting we’re going to set some goals and these are shorter-term so these are going to be like the annual goals and the quarterly goals so where the grand vision is about dreaming big, the goals are about like narrowing the focus a little bit more and saying, “Okay, if I can only focus on a few things in the next quarter or the next year, what are the most important ones that are going to help me take the next steps to be able to live out that grand vision?” And we need to have goals. We have to have the big dream and the hopes piece and then we need to have the broken-down goals so that we can actually set out action plans to create it and make it happen. It’s not just going to happen on its own. So, understanding that end destination is going to allow us to sort of reverse engineer that plan.


Hal: Got you. Yeah. I love it. It’s so funny. Goal setting is such an elementary thing in terms of most of us if we’re entrepreneurs or in sales or successful, we’re taught to set goals but every time I hear a message like this, usually I’m not going, “Wow, I never heard anything like that before,” but I’m going, “Damn it. I’m not doing that.” I forget those fundamentals and those basics. In fact, that’s actually coming off of last year’s cancer journey for me. That is actually my number one like my theme for this year is to get back to basics. That’s my theme. Get back to basics, get back to what works meaning the SAVERS, all of the personal development practices every day, the Miracle Morning, goal setting, health, and fitness. It’s just like the basics, the fundamentals of goal achievement are really what I’m focusing on and getting back to this year, really simplifying. Not trying to learn the newest craziest latest cutting-edge thing but just getting back to what’s gotten me here and I think that for all of us that’s something we can always revisit and always look at.


Ryan: Yeah. And a couple of things too that I feel like people make the same mistakes over and over again when they start setting these goals. So, the number one mistake that I would see with most people that I’ve either coached or had in training is that their goals are arbitrary in a sense that they might just pick a number because they feel like it’s the right next thing for them to do and not necessarily because it actually makes sense for where they’re at and where they’re taking their people or their team or where they want to take their health. They’re just picking it because it makes sense like, “I’m going to double my business this year.” Okay. Well, why? Why are you going to double your business? And what does that look like? And do you really want to work as many more hours as you’re going to need to? Or are you committed to hiring a number of employees you would need to hire in order to do that? And so, actually, it’s taking some time to look at doing these goals actually keep me on track for the vision that I said that I wanted in the grand vision?


Hal: Got you. Okay.


Ryan: Another one would be the need for immediate results. So, that idea that we need to make the goal so big this year because we have to grow like vertically each year a little bit in order to keep on track but that’s not really how growth happens. Like, if you look at most growth patterns for people and for businesses they look like that hockey stick or it’s kind of flat for a while and you just keep doing the activity and then you get like this stick end at the end. So, even if we have this huge ridiculous goal for five years out or 10 years out that’s part of the grand vision, it doesn’t mean that we need to do a fifth of that or a tenth of that this year. And so, making sure that we’re planning accordingly based on where we currently are and knowing that some of that growth is going to happen rapidly towards the end from just doing the right things this year, not trying to cram it all in right at the beginning and front-load everything.


Hal: Got you. Yeah. That’s a really great point.


Ryan: And then the last one is the idea of too many goals. So, I think the best place to put people is like go to the one thing. The one thing isn’t about having one goal. It’s about having one key goal in each of the areas that are going to make other goals sort of happen and make it easier or unnecessary to do these other things because people write down like 10 or 20 or 30 goals that they’re going to accomplish in a year. And so as soon as they do that, they dilute everything, and they don’t spend enough time on the ones that really are the most important to them. And so, having the clarity around what’s important as far as priorities I feel like would be really helpful for most people. We just came from that dad’s retreat and Jay Papasan and Jeff Woods were there talking about this and they had us write down our priorities like all of the things in life that make up priorities for us whether it’s family and health and kids and fun and job and money and then we had to rank them in order. It was so telling because it looks like, well, you can only really take care of seven. So, who’s falling in 8, 9 and 10 and do they belong there? And it was just interesting to look at.


Hal: Yeah. For me a few years ago when I set my goals, I started identifying my mission for every year and it could be a mission in each area but for me, it’s the mission. At the most, I do two missions, so I have personal and a professional and the reason I did that is just by changing the language that we use and then what we associate with that language meaning for me the way I look at it is we often set goals. We hit them. We don’t hit them. Try again new goals, new year, et cetera. I thought the level of commitment that we have to a mission like when we’re on a mission you’re fully committed to that mission. You’re fully committed to executing the mission. You think about military it’s like the mission is like if you don’t do it right, you die. So, we saw the goal. “Our goal is to go and sneak into the enemy territory and not die.” That’s a mission. You’re fully committed with every fiber of your being and when you’re that committed that you have planning that goes in and preparation and collaboration. It’s at a very high, high level. And so, for me, every year when I set my goals I go, “Okay, of all the goals that I’ve set professionally, which one if I had to pick that only one was going to happen, if none,” and this is how I get myself to figure it out, I go I got seven goals professionally and only one is going to happen and the other they absolutely cannot. I have to pick one, what is that one? What one will make the biggest impact on my business, my life, etcetera, etcetera? And then I do it personally.


Anyway, so yeah just along the line of having too many goals. I think it’s okay to have multiple goals but like you talked about that Jay Papasan and Jeff talked about at the dad’s retreat could really just prioritizing and if that helps anybody listening to call it your mission amongst your many, many goals what is your mission either professionally and personally or if you want to really look at if you have to create a mission in each area, your mission in your health, your mission in your finances, your mission in your marriage, etcetera.


Ryan: Yeah. No, I love that and what I love about what you just said too is that level of commitment so what’s your commitment and how are you showing that you’re committed to those top-level goals.


Hal: Yeah. Great point. All right. What’s our third G?


Ryan: All right. So, number three is the game plan so once we have the goals and we sort of set the end dates for the quarter or the month, we need some sort of plan as to how we’re actually going to take action and put them into play. So, at first, breaking them down. It could seem daunting when you pick like one of your goals let’s say so we want to break it down into like daily and weekly activities that we need to do. And so, they have to be scheduled as daily, weekly, and monthly activities. I actually break mine down and color code them as to what needs to be done every day, every week or every month.


Hal: Got you. Monthly, weekly, daily activities. Okay


Ryan: The next piece is similar to the smart goals piece, they need to be measurable. So, for instance, like when training for half marathon, the game plan for this week can’t be running. The game plan might be run 3 miles on Monday, 4 miles on Thursday, long run of 8 miles on Saturday. There’s no question of whether or not I fulfill my obligation to stay on track with the goal.


Hal: Got you. Yeah. So, measurable. So, it’s important measurable, not just the goal itself but the game plan, the activity. I think that’s an important distinction. That’s often not taught. It’s like, yeah, you set your smart goals but being measurable but this might be the first time I’ve heard that anybody talk about that your game plan and your activity needs to be measurable as well. So, really good point. Yeah. For me like when I was in sales it was the 20 calls a day or for when I double my sales, 40 calls a day. I can really easily manipulate those numbers to achieve the goal based on how relative they were, and then the same thing when I was training for the ultramarathon to your point about can’t just be run this week. I was following a game plan for a book called The Non-Runner’s Marathon Trainer and it told me exactly to run 2 miles today, 2 miles tomorrow, 3 miles on Wednesday, 2 miles and then five then long run on Saturday of 10 miles or whatever. Yeah. Really great point. Okay. Go ahead.


Ryan: Yeah. And so, the last little piece, well, I guess there’s two more but the big one is the idea of this fact that you have to have faith in a plan like you have to believe that it’s going to work so it’s sort of like the miracle equation once we have at the end of the Miracle Morning for Salespeople book which is that idea that if you don’t have faith in the fact that following this plan is going to get you to the end goal that you wanted then why would you put in the effort. You won’t actually do the activity if you don’t believe that doing the activity is going to get you what you wanted in the end.


Hal: Yeah. That’s great. And I think that’s an important point to the goal overall. If you don’t really have faith that you can reach the goal, you’re not making the game plan probably. Why make the game plan if you don’t believe you can reach the goal and if you reach the goal but you don’t have faith in the game plan, why actually implement the game plan? So, really great stuff.


Ryan: And then two questions that are sort of guiding questions that I think some people missed the boat on in doing their planning Is, do the activities that I’m saying that I’m going to do actually fit in my calendar with my other priorities? And do the activities fit in my budget? So, I think of this as when I was training real estate agents, for instance, farming is one of the ways that real estate agents grow their business. So, they mail out to a group of individuals and they attempt to get business from like a neighborhood let’s say. And so, they made plans to mail to 1,000 individuals and farming is one of those things that takes time. It’s 18 to 24 months before you start to see a return on any of your investment. If I go in planning on saying, “I’m going to mail to 1,000 people every single month in order to hit my goal of getting X number of transactions from that farm and I’ve only got in my budget enough to spend that money for six months and then I don’t have the money anymore then I can’t follow through the activity I said I was going to do to hit my goal.


So, you need to make sure that it fits in their schedule, one, that they’re going to actually have time to do the activity but then, two, are they going to be able to maintain the activity for the entire amount of time that it’s going to take to get the result? Because otherwise, they’re just wasting money and time and they’re going to fall short of their goal.


Hal: Got you. That makes sense. So, do the activities fit in my calendar? Do the activities fit into my budget? I love it. All right. We are on to the fourth G of goal setting.


Ryan: We are. So, the fourth G of goal setting is guidance and that comes down to the fact that we can learn from successes and mistakes of others or from our own and I found that learning from my own mistakes usually cost me a lot more money than learning from mistakes of others. So, that guidance could come in lots of different forms. It could come from a book or a webinar or a workshop. It could come from a training or an online course or in best case scenario probably a mentor or coach. Some are going to have a higher level of learning because of the ongoing nature of them like coaching or training or mentor and the ability to interact and ask one-on-one questions I feel like is probably the fastest way but again it depends on whether or not that’s in your budget. You’re not going to have a coach for every single goal probably unless you can afford that, so you got to figure out like which resources make sense based on this particular goal.


Hal: Got it. And even if you did, even if you could afford it, you wouldn’t have any room in your calendar for activities because you’re doing coaching call all the time.


Ryan: All day every day.


Hal: That are people that do that, right? I mean, personal, in fact, we’ve all probably been there. Different phases of personal development junkies. It’s like, “Oh yeah, I’m reading more books than ever.” It’s like, “Are you doing anything with it?” “Well, no, no, no I’m just reading a lot.” It’s like we think that’s the goal or that’s the winner. “If I read these books then I’ll achieve what I want,” but obviously the actions won’t matter. All right. So, with guidance, we’ve got learning from mistakes and the success of others and again that could be books, training, coaching, etcetera.  What else?


Ryan: So, I think another thing you sort of pointed out is the fact that you need to make sure that it’s tailored to the goals and to the vision. It has to be connected to the grand vision and to the goals because if we just set out to read like everything we can to learn then we don’t focus enough on what we need to go do. And so, choosing the path, once we choose the path, we don’t need to learn every possible way to achieve the goal. We need to become masters at the one or two ways that we set out that we were going to do it like what’s in the game plan, what do we need to learn in the game plan? How do we stay on track for that game plan? Now, let’s learn everything there is to know in that entire area.


Hal: Got it. So, quality over quantity when it comes to your strategies?


Ryan: Yeah. And we read like if you’re getting from books or you’re getting from classes, don’t go out and take 20 different classes or read 20 different books. Get two or three books on the topic and then read them two or three times as you’re going through the activity because you’re learning, changing, and growing and you’re going to take different things from it each time you go through it.


Hal: Got you. Yeah. I’m a huge fan of rereading versus… I think we read something, we’re exposed to the information. We read it, we really internalize it and understand it at a deeper level so awesome.


Ryan: The next major piece of guidance is the accountability factor of it so who’s holding you accountable for the things that you said you’re going to do? People will say that integrity is the most important thing to them like if you ask most people they’ll say trust, integrity. Those are the things that end up for them as the most important and if they make an appointment with somebody else, they’ll pretty much always uphold it. So, for most people they said to their mom like, “Hey, mom, I’m going to be there on Saturday to help you do this,” they’re going to show up. Or if they told their best friend they’re going to come help them move, they’re going to show up. But if they write something on their calendar that they’re supposed to do, just for themselves to stay on track with their own goals it’ll be the first thing that they’ll let slide.


And so, they need somebody else to hold them accountable because we don’t want to look bad in front of other people. It’s actually a way for people to use the fact that we try and avoid pain as a motivator to keep them on track is to tell somebody else that they’re going to do something because then they’re going to be more accountable to the fact that they need to get it done. And even if it’s for themselves.


Hal: For you, I’m just curious, personally, what are your sources for accountability? What have they been in the past?


Ryan: Yeah. No, I have several of them. Great question. I have one-on-one coaches in certain areas so like I just wrote another book and I hired Honoree as my coach to keep me on track for the book so that we would launch on time and we would make sure to do the right thing as far as marketing and advertising.


Hal: And Honoree will kick your butt. You know that from co-authoring the real estate book.


Ryan: I do. She’s a freaking rock star. So, I hired a one-on-one coach for that. I have a group coaching program and the M1 program that I’m part of and within that is a pod that I’m part of with five or six other individuals and we have calls every two weeks and we talk about our 90-day goals and where we are on track for them and we make commitments to them. So, we have to reward ourselves when we hit our goals and we create punishments for ourselves for when we don’t follow through and get our stuff done. And the idea is that some people are getting more motivated by the pleasure, to seek pleasure part of having a reward and some people are going to be more motivated by the avoid pain piece of having to do the punishment. So, if you make the pain of the punishment worse than the pain of the activity you need to do to hit your goal, then you’re more likely going to stick to the goal and get the activity done.


Hal: Say that again. If you make the pain… Say it again.


Ryan: Yeah. So, if you make the pain of the punishment for not achieving your goal bigger than the pain of doing the activity in order to hit your goal, you’re going to hit your goal every time.


Hal: Yeah. That’s a great point. I read a book like 15 years ago called Following Through and that was the premise of the entire book was that set yourself up with consequences and there’s the positive psychology movement that goes kind of against this but I think there are the lessons to learn from both and it was again that idea that will do more to avoid pain than will gain pleasure. If we would do enough to gain pleasure, everyone in the world would be ultimately successful because well there’s enough pleasure available to work hard enough. But we tend to work hard enough to avoid the pain of losing our house or not being able to buy food or you know what I mean? So, I think most of us we can relate to that and having the consequence that is painful enough to get us into action at least until we get the habits in place from taking those actions consistently.


Ryan: Right. And we talk about this in the workshop too because I feel like this is something that comes up a lot for people. A lot of the issue behind this isn’t necessarily like whether or not we’re more averse to for the avoid pain piece or seek pleasure is better. It’s typically the pain is closer and so there is power in that proximity to the idea that my goal is at the end of the year. I will have sold X and that’s going to allow me to go in this vacation or buy this thing for my kids or whatever and that’s the end of the year but the fact that I have to make the 20 calls is today. So, right now I have to get on the phone. So, if the call is the source of pain and we don’t have some sort of like closer reward for making the 20 calls, if we don’t pull that pleasure forward or make the pain of not hitting the goal bigger then we’re always going to fall prey to avoiding the pain right now which is making the call or getting on the treadmill or whatever the goal is that you’re setting out to do, there’s going to be pain involved in that activity. Otherwise, it will be simple, and everybody will do it all the time.


Hal: Yeah. That’s a really great distinction. I hope people don’t miss that which is that you either need immediate pleasure or immediate pain set up so that you can immediately take action that you needed to take to follow through and that’s where coaching like having a weekly coach from you and I, the one-on-one coach years ago really helped me develop the discipline and those habits to follow through because when I’d be sitting there and going, “I don’t really feel like making calls,” then that voice in my head of, “I gave my word to Jeff, my coach,” and I’m talking to him on Tuesday like three days. I can’t be out of integrity and be lame and tell him, “I didn’t actually follow through with what I said I was going to do.” Yeah. Really, really great, man.


Ryan: And sometimes that pleasure is not that exciting like so health for example like it’s important to me that I’m healthy because I want to spend time with my kids or whatever but like the bad part of not being healthy might be like 60 years out. So, that’s not a motivator for me to want to go to the gym like I don’t love to go to the gym. There are lots of things I’d rather do but I know that it’s important that I maintain my health that I exercise, and people talk about it all the time, so I have to put other things in place. So, I know like last time I was in the best shape of my life. I know this because I’m doing it right now was 10 years ago. I ran the half marathon when I think it was the same year you ran the ultramarathon for Front Row Foundation and that was when I was in the best shape. That’s when I weighed the least. That’s when I had the most muscle. That’s when I was eating right.


And so, this year I have decided that I wanted to get back in the best shape of my life. I quit my job. I was going to have time. I had no excuses why not to do it. I just don’t like to go. So, I signed up for half marathon again and I was like, “Okay. Well if I sign up I’ll do it.” I’m like, “Yeah. Maybe I won’t.” So, I called three or four guys that I’m friends with who are in great shape that live locally, and I get them to sign up for the same half marathon because what I knew about myself is I wouldn’t let them down like I wouldn’t not show up and run with them after I made these guys sign up. And so, that’s been the impetus for me to go to the gym is the fact that the pain of letting those guys down in 60 days is far worse than the pain of getting on the treadmill for a few miles, few days a week.


Hal: I love that. That’s my favorite form of accountability is being a leader of a group that you are leading to accomplish a certain result. Back with Cutco, you know that I formed that ultimate team where we call in like 20 other top salespeople on the call and I would make commitments to what I was going to do and then gets their commitments and exactly what you said which is every day when I didn’t feel like making those calls, I’m like, “I can’t. I’m the leader of this group.” I can’t show up to our call on Sunday and be like, “Oh, did you guys do your stuff? Me? No, I didn’t do it, but I want to make sure that you guys did because that’s what we’re here for.” You couldn’t do that. So, my favorite form of accountability is leading a group to achieve the result that you’re working towards and also because it’s a fulfilling form of accountability because not only are you holding yourself accountable in being a leader but you’re helping other people. So, to me, it’s a bunch of needs. You hit the need for contribution, the need for accountability, etcetera, etcetera. So, yeah, man, really great.


Ryan: Yeah. Those are the relationships and there are so many benefits to do it as a group like that.


Hal: Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Then are we on G number five?


Ryan: Yeah. So, G number five is get it done. Like the activity piece. So, I sort of joke about this because The Secret is a really great book about the power of positive thinking, but I always think that there’s a missing chapter which is the part where you’re like you get off your butt and that you actually do something to make some of these things happen. And so, if you’ve gone about setting the grand vision and writing the goals down and breaking down the game plan and you’ve got yourself some guidance and accountability for it, well then checking the measurables of the activity every single week and making sure that you’re hitting those is the easiest way to tell if you’re going to hit the goal or not.


Like if I walk up to somebody and let’s say we’re talking about sales just because that’s the background and Dave said, “Here’s my goal. Here’s what I’m going to do. This is my game plan,” and I look at their game plan and it says, “Well, I’m going to make 30 calls a day,” let’s say and I say, “Great. Well, how many calls did you make yesterday?” If the answer is not 30, they’re not on track. Like it doesn’t matter if they made all the calls that they need to make the six weeks prior to that. If they’re not consistently doing the thing they said they’re going to do every day and actually getting the activity done, then they’re going to fall short because it’s so easy for that to build up. If you didn’t make 30 yesterday, what makes you think you’re going to make 60 tomorrow?


Hal: Yeah. And I think that’s an important piece too is if we do miss especially when it comes to sales like numbers like that. Even if you miss that’s what I used to when I coach sales reps, they go, “Oh yeah, I missed my calls yesterday or I missed some calls, but I’ll make my calls tomorrow.” I go, “No, no, no. You can’t just make your calls tomorrow. You have to make up the calls that you missed.” Because that accumulation at the end of the year if you miss a 30-call day and you do average 1.5 a week of those, that’s 45 calls a week for 50 weeks, what is that? 2,000 calls that you didn’t make that were needed for the law of averages to work in your favor and allow you to reach your goals. So, I think it’s important that when it comes to exercising, I don’t know if that means that you need to run to make up all your miles. I would say that you do but I think it’s important to realize that when you miss something you got to look at, okay, A, I can’t miss again, B, how am I going to make those up over the next days or weeks?


Ryan: Right. And what needs to change to make sure that I don’t mess again? Because you’re also giving yourself permission that it’s okay not to do it. And so as soon as we do that, you’ve broken the habit piece again. So, think about the way that you talk about in the Miracle Morning that idea of the first 10 days of being unbearable so every time we start missing and flipping, we go back to the unbearable where we have to like will ourselves to go do the activity again because it takes us out of that automaticity and so now we’re starting over and maybe not if we miss one day because we were sick but as soon as we give ourselves permission to make that a habit, it’s so much easier to start the bad habit again than it is to maintain the good habit. So, one day or two days or one day next week and then two weeks later one day again, every single time we’re sort of letting in the bad habit of not committing to the activity again and it’s really difficult to be the person who has it as a habit when we allow ourselves to slip and break the habit.


Hal: Yeah. Never let one bad day turn into two. That’s my self-imposed rule. If I miss a day, don’t beat yourself up but recommit. Really recommit. Don’t let one bad day turn into two. All right. So, get it done. Any other tips on getting it done?


Ryan: Well, I think the biggest thing there is just a measure of the activity, not necessarily the results. All right. So, one of the reasons that we talk about the measurable numbers for the activity which we talked about earlier is the idea that what you talked about, the law of averages. Whether that’s health or whether that’s sales or whatever, relationships, there may be bad days. There might even be bad weeks. We might go through a strait that’s just not good like it wasn’t your best week for running. It wasn’t your best week for sales calls like it wasn’t your best week in dating. It doesn’t matter what the goal is but if we have a consistent activity that we’re doing and we’re rewarding ourselves with the activity then the results will eventually come. And if they’re not coming, two things will happen, one, by continuing the activity we’ll improve and then the other piece is if consistently we’re doing the activity, we’re doing the activity and we’re not seeing the results over and over and over again then we need to go back to four which is guidance. Who’s the coach or mentor or whatever that’s going to help redirect us to make sure that we’re doing the activity the right way?


Hal: Or even the book, right?


Ryan: Right. Reading the book.


Hal: What book have I fallen too far off track from because it’s been so long since I read it and I need to reread it? Yeah. I love it, man. I love it. So, five Gs of goals settings. We have a grand vision. Start with your five, your 10-year dream, remove the limits, imagine if anything were possible, what would that look like for you. Number two, set your goals, your annual and quarterly goals. So, work backward from that grand vision and figure out what the goals are going to be in the short-term that are going to get you to your grand vision. Number three is to make your game plan, break it down to your monthly or weekly or daily activities, make sure they are measurable, not just the goals. Make sure the activities are measurable, have faith in the plan.


And then number four is guidance. Read books on the topic. Always be learning and growing and evolving in the areas or the skill sets that you need to achieve the goals that you set. Make sure you’ve got accountability, someone that’s holding you accountable to follow through. Ryan, I talked about our favorite form of that is to lead an accountability group and it could just be you and another person. Ideally, the more people you’re leading, the more accountability there is for you. It’s easier to let that one person and kind of talk to him and get him to forget you and make excuses that you think will get you off the hook but if it’s you’re leading a group of four, five, ten people, 20 people, that’s a little harder to convince them that it’s okay that you didn’t follow through than it’s harder to convince yourself that it’s okay if you do not follow through.


And then the fifth G is get it done. Focus on the activity, the process that will get you to your goals and don’t stress about the results because there’s always good days, bad days, good weeks, bad weeks, good months, bad months, etcetera, but if you consistently follow through with the activity that you predetermined will get you to your goals, your success is essentially inevitable like Ryan said. By doing the activity more and more and more, no matter what, you’re going to get better and better and better at the activity itself. Ryan, anything to add to that? Then I want to mention you have a new book coming out but anything else said to the five Gs?


Ryan: Yeah. Now, so the one thing I would say is the idea behind the goals and the guide, the grand vision is that what most people set one of your goals they will inevitably in a lot of cases fall short and that’s okay because of who they become in the process but when they set a grand vision they tend to hit it faster. So, if they have a five-year or ten-year vision, a lot of times they’ll hit it by year three or year four and it’s because they didn’t take into account how much they were going to grow in the course of those three or four years and what new things would open up to them as far as possibilities and opportunities that were out there. Because we could only sort of see with limited vision what’s been available to us to this point, not what’s going to become available to us in the next two or three years.


Hal: I love that. I’m living proof. I can attest to that where there are so many people for example that I used to observe from a distance with admiration and like people like Joe Polish, for example, the founder of Genius Network. When I met him or I was in an event, he was there and I’m like, “Oh, that’s THE Joe Polish,” you know, capital T, capital H, Capital E. That’s THE Joe Polish and now Joe and I are buddies. We text each other and I never imagined that would happen. I didn’t know. And that’s true with a lot of these. I just interviewed Jordan Harbinger today on my podcast and I used to listen to his podcast and being at awe and be like, “Dude, this guy has like best podcast in the world,” and now we’re buddies and we’re texting each other and so in terms of the relationships that you’re going to develop. As you grow and become a better version of yourself, you attract better people into your life and people that also have grand visions and that are following these five Gs. So, really great, man. Ryan, before we get off today, you have a new book that just came out, Explosive Sales Growth in Real Estate.


Ryan: You got it.


Hal: I could guess who it’s for but tell me who’s the book for and what are they going to get out of it?


Ryan: Yeah. Now, so the book is for real estate agents. I spent the last three years running a real estate office and we grew and did over $1 billion in sales within the three years and I found myself having the same coaching conversations over and over again around having a focused lead generation plan and not spreading yourself too thin. We talk about some of the things that you and I just talked about goal achievement, but it is very detailed on 11 different lead generation strategies. And we coach people to choose just two or three of them that suit their business goals and their personalities. So, to fix something that they’re actually excited about doing the activity for in order to help them achieve their goals and build the life of their dreams and they can find it on Amazon. They can go to ExplosiveSalesBook.com directly and it will just connect them to the Amazon page and yeah, that’s the book. I’m excited about it. It hit number one in real estate sales right off the bat. It’s the number one new release in the category so things are going really well. Lots of great feedback. Already a bunch of 5-star reviews so I’m excited. I hope folks will read it.


Hal: Yeah. Anybody listening, if you are in real estate and I know we have a lot of real estate agents that listen to the podcast, obviously, I’m sure you’re going to get that book but if you are not in real estate but you have somebody in your circle of influence, somebody in your family, your friends, etcetera, give them the book. Give them the book for a gift. I think a book that could change their life is one of the best gifts you can give to somebody. So, Ryan, man, it’s always a blast to talk to you. Thanks for coming into the podcast.


Ryan: Thanks for having me, Hal. I appreciate you, brother, and thanks for all the great work you do in helping people achieve their goals.


Hal: You got it, man. Well, for everybody listening, Achieve Your Goals Podcast listeners a.k.a. goal achievers, thank you for tuning in to another episode. I hope you got as much value. I took a ton of notes. Hopefully, you could tell that when I repeat it back the overall call, but I love and appreciate you. Thanks for listening to the podcast and until next week, go out there and make somebody’s life better and I’ll talk to you soon.



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mike koenigs podcast

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When I was diagnosed with cancer, someone I had admired for years reached out and selflessly offered to help me navigate my cancer journey. Expert internet marketer and recent stage 3 colorectal cancer survivor Mike Koenigs felt it was his duty to help in any way he possibly could, and this belief is the foundation of his success in the business world.

Mike is a 13-time #1 bestselling author, speaker, active online personality, and entertainer with over 54,000 customers in 121 countries. He put together some of the biggest sales in online history – and has never stopped authentically reinventing himself.

Today, Mike joins the podcast to discuss the dangers of overworking, the power of showing vulnerability in your business, and his upcoming Promote & Profit event, taking place this May 7-9 in San Diego, CA.

AND… I’ll be speaking on the 9th, so I’d love to meet you there! :^)


  • Why it’s so important to help people on your way up (in any field) in order to have help when you’re on the way down.
  • How Mike’s childhood desires of being “rich, warm, and first” led him to his first million-dollar sale in the online marketing space.
  • Why it’s better to be authentic – and to show love in your business – than to strive for perfection.
  • Mike’s low-tech strategy that gets butts in seats, stops his promotions from feeling too sales-y, and why it works so well.
  • Mike’s simple technique to bring in higher-quality customers willing to pay more – that you can start employing right now!


[ctt template=”12″ link=”80Yux” via=”yes” ]The people you make time for on the way up are the ones who are going to give you that extra boost when you’re on your way down. – Mike Koenigs[/ctt]


If you enjoyed this post and received value from this episode, please leave a quick comment below and SHARE with your friends. Thank YOU for paying it forward! :^)

COMMENT QUESTION: What is your big takeaway? Write it in the comments below.


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[read more=”Click here to Read the Transcript” less=”Read Less”] 



Hal: Mike, what’s going on, buddy? So, what’s new and exciting? You mentioned this email that you sent that got the best response of any email you’ve ever sent. Tell me about that.


Mike: Sure. Well, here’s what happened. Just to frame this, I was away for a week with my son who’s 15 years old as of right now and we went on a father-son trip together. We went out to Utah to fly fish, horseback ride, ski, and we stayed at Robert Redford’s Sundance Hotel Ranch getaway and in fact, we even saw Robert Redford when we went out for dinner together and it isn’t a fancy crazy place but it’s where the legendary Sundance Film Festival takes place.


Hal: And Robert was at the restaurant you were at?


Mike: He was there. It was so crazy. We walk in and there he is. He’s talking. Now he’s with family. It was not appropriate for me to interrupt and ask for a picture or a selfie, although I did take away from the table a little shot. It’s not a good photo. You barely see him.


Hal: Pretending you’re text messaging?


Mike: Yeah. Totally. It was like, “Oh, I got to be able to tell the story at least,” but it was a wonderful time and then after that I went and visited my parents who are aging now and suffering from early-stage Alzheimer’s and it’s like how is this going to tie together with the story? Well, here’s the basic deal. I sent out this email. I was very touched emotionally, spiritually and physically from this trip. Because I was spending those precious moments, anyone who has children knows how precious these moments are and if you watch your child, it seems like yesterday they’re babies and then suddenly he’s 15, he’s 6’3 now. He’s got a mind of his own and his own opinions and what he wants to do with his life. And on the other spectrum, I’m watching my parents as they fade and it’s extremely emotional as they are now I’m taking care of them and the whole conversation is what are we going to do to maintain the highest quality of life.


So, I was writing an email to my entire list and I titled it The Cats in The Cradle. And anyone who knows that song by Harry Chapin knows it’s basically about a man who he had a little boy and their whole life his son is saying, “Let’s play daddy. Let’s play football. Let’s play. Let’s play,” and he’s always, “I don’t have time. I don’t have time. I don’t have time.” And finally, at the end of the song here, he’s an old man, he has a son, if he can spend some time together and he says, “Sorry, dad. I don’t have time. The kids, the wife’s a wreck. The kids have the flu. I’m really, really busy and it’s been nice talking to you,” but then it fades. And you can wake up one day and your whole life can go by. It’ll be like what happened? Or you can decide to make time for the things and the people that matter most and realize that all of these little pursuits don’t really matter.


So, what matters most and who matters most is a huge part where I spend my conscious time now and what I invest in whether it’s business and the things that I value now are considerably different now than they were a week ago, a month ago, a year ago, a decade ago or 25 years ago. So, it’s been a really intense spiritual business and personal journey over the past couple of weeks in particular. So, it’s fun to be talking to you, Hal, because you’ve been on an amazing journey. Your audience has been in an amazing journey with you and I think to a degree you and I have been on a journey together over the past couple of years that we got to know each other.


Hal: Yeah. Absolutely and for anybody listening, this is Mike Koenigs and he is a recent stage 3 colorectal – how do you say that?


Mike: Colorectal cancer survivor.


Hal: Colorectal cancer. Right. That’s a word I don’t use every day in my language but he’s a cancer survivor and a cancer survivor who reached out to me when I was diagnosed with cancer and jumped on the phone and basically said as a survivor and he’s a survivor five years in remission, he said that, “As a survivor, I feel that it’s my duty and responsibility to help other people that are going through cancer in any way that I can.” And so, Mike, you were there for me a ton and a big support. It’s funny. My dad references you all the time whenever – he’s like, “Well, remember Mike said…” I’m like, “Okay, dad. If Mike said, you’re right.” It’s law.


Mike: “Listen to that guy. He knows what he’s talking about.” It’s funny.


Hal: I first not even met you because we didn’t meet but I first saw you online from afar watching you as a very successful individual who’d interviewed the likes of Tony Robbins. Who were some of the people that you’ve interviewed over the years? You’ve interviewed some really prominent names.


Mike: Sure. Well, some of the fun ones that I’ve had in my life would be like Richard Dreyfuss, the actor, the Academy Award-winning actor. I have a fun story about how I met him on a plane. One that people will find controversial will be like Jordan Belfort, the Wolf of Wall Street. He’s a guy I’ve known for a long time. Of course, Tony Robbins, Brian Tracy, Jack Canfield. Let’s see. Phil Town. Another multiple best-selling author and good friend of mine, of course, is JJ Virgin and Dave Asprey from Bulletproof Coffee but holy cow. I’d have to look at my – I have a wall of fame that I have a lot of photos.


Hal: You left out Hal Elrod and I know you interviewed Hal Elrod.


Mike: Hal Elrod. That guy is a freaking rock star. If you could even get him on the phone, he’s so hard to reach these days.


Hal: That’s true.


Mike: But, yeah, it’s been a whirlwind. It’s really been exciting. All I know, let’s see, Paula Abdul is a fascinating character. I’ve had a good chance to work with her and coach and consult with her as well.


Hal: For our listeners too, if you don’t know who Mike is, he’s a 13-time number one best-selling author, speaker, interactive online personality, entertainer. He has 54,000 customers in 121 countries and, Mike, you’re kind of a vet in the Internet space. You’ve been doing this for a long time. This is the first time I saw you. He was actually at an event. You were hosting one of your Promote & Profit events which I’m sure we’ll probably get to that because I’m speaking at your Promote & Profit event here in next month in May. But I was attending, I mean, this was five years ago when I was just starting my journey. I was writing the Miracle Morning and all of that and learning from everybody out there the best people in the industry like good and you were and are one of those individuals that I was attending your event and modeling and learning from. So, thank you, brother. Thank you for teaching me early on, on how to do this the right way.


Mike: It’s always a pleasure, man. It really is, and I think I feel deep responsibility. You spend some time in business, you have a responsibility to the younger folks who are coming along because you can imagine that you’re high and holy and things are going to stay that way but like anything in life, you go through these cycles where there are uptimes, there are downtimes, and who do you make time for on your way up are the ones who are going to give you that extra boost when you’re on your way down or when you’re going to be the ebb and the flow in the cycles. And there’s one big lesson that I live by is don’t get cocky. Don’t start believing your own stuff because that’s when you wake up one day you’re like, “Holy cow. The stuff I was preaching isn’t working.” I got comfortable. I got lazy. I got complacent or I quit focusing on the thing that matters most which is constant and total reinvention and keeping an eye on what the trends are in the cycles and always remembering that if you aren’t hungry every single day, someone hungrier than you is going to show up and fill any gaps and that old saying that nature abhors a vacuum, something will fill a hole that you leave if you’re not fulfilling it.

Hal: Yeah. So, stay hungry and stay humble. As they say, the same people you meet on the way up are the same people you meet on the way down. So, hopefully, you treat everybody with kindness on the way up so that they extend their hand, extend the olive branch if you are going down and keeping you from falling too far. Beautiful, man. Well, this is the Achieve Your Goals Podcast and I try to target all of our content and our interviews around helping our listeners to achieve their goals and it’s one universal thing that any achiever has in common is we’ve got goals that we’re working towards and you’re somebody that’s achieved really extraordinary goals across the board and personally and professionally.


One of the things you had mentioned, years so ago is that you and your son who is 15, 6’3, you said he’s taller than you, he towers over you, but you guys are still super close. You still hold hands when you walk, and you sent me a couple of pictures of you guys holding hands and I show that to my son who is five and he’s already sometimes not wanting to hold dad’s hand. I’m like, “Son, this is my dream for us. Look, this is my friend Mike. His son’s 15. They still hold hands, buddy. We can hold hands.” In fact, last night was one of the sweetest things. I was getting ready for bed and he was as well. I already had given him a hug at night and my son Hal he comes in. He goes, “Dad, I want to say goodnight to you one more time.” I said, “Oh, thanks, buddy.” Then he gave me a hug. He said, “I want to give you a kiss,” and he gave me a kiss on the lips which a lot of times he does. He turns away or says, “Your beard is scratching me.” Anyway, it was just the fact that he came out of his way to give me a kiss last night just melted my heart. It was the greatest thing. So, you’ve been an inspiration.


Mike: Those are sweet precious moments. They’re sweet precious moments. That’s for sure.


Hal: Absolutely. So, let’s start. There’s a story that I’ve never heard but you’ve like teased me with and it’s your – I don’t know. I’ll call it your million-dollar story. You can set it up and it’s how you made your first million or your second million. I don’t exactly know but I’d love to hear it myself and I’d love to share it with the listeners.


Mike: Sure. Well, here’s the setup. Growing up and after just being home, this is very near and dear to me because I was just at home and my parents still live in the same home I grew up in which is 50 some years later and my dad grew up very poor on a little farm in Iowa. My mother is the daughter of basically a philandering alcoholic and a crazy person, so she did not have security growing up. My dad had very, very little growing up and I mean they literally got running water when he was still growing up and they had outhouses. Dad’s 81 right now so this isn’t that long ago. And as a barber and with four kids, there wasn’t a lot to go around so I got used to a saying around the house which was, “We can’t afford it,” because my dad, I was oldest of four kids, we were late and last for just about everything. Dad worked four jobs at any given time. Not only was he the barber. He was a building inspector, the city clerk, and he’s also a very talented musician and vocalist so he always donated his time to events and organizations to sing and entertain.


So, the great news is he was very well loved and very well liked but he wasn’t around that much, and he was out there hustling and making money to feed the family. So, in addition to we can’t afford it, the other thing that happened is we were late and last for almost everything. So, when we showed up somewhere and probably where we were late and last if there was like a potluck dinner, some sort of a dinner going on, it was often we’re getting the scraps that were left behind. I can remember when someone asked me, “What do you want when you grow up someday?” I’d say I want to be rich, warm, and first. And the part of this that I left out is I grew up in a very cold part of Minnesota and it was not uncommon for it to be 30 below zero for a long part of the year. I mean, cold, cold, painfully cold. And I am not a fan of the cold, I never have been. That’s why I live in San Diego now.


Hal: There you go.


Mike: So, I wanted to be rich first and warm. And I started working full-time when I was 16 years old. I started my first business when I was 14. I wasn’t good at school. I wasn’t good at anything growing up. Severe ADHD. The classic entrepreneurial story. And I taught myself how to program when I was about 14 years old and I started computer consulting shortly after because my dad’s a good talker. I mean, there’s someone in the barber chair. It’d be like an insurance salesman. He’d say, “Yeah. We just got one of the new computers and our secretary doesn’t know how to use it.” My dad would turn on him and say, “Well, you know what, my son likes computer. Why don’t we give him a call and see if he can help you out here?” You know, dad would get this guy on the phone and he’d say, “You think you can help out Earnest here with his secretary at the insurance place and teach his secretary how to use a computer?” and I go, “Yeah. I think I can do that.” Having absolutely no idea how to do it or what to do but the guy said, “Well, why don’t you come down here?”


It beat the heck out of flipping burgers or some menial job and within a couple of months, not only did I have one client, one insurance salesman, I talked with another one. He’d say, “Well, why don’t you come over and teach mine how to do the same thing?” and pretty soon it snowballed. So, you fast forward a few years. Not only did I teach myself how to code and consult and work with business owners, I had started an interactive advertising agency which then when I sold that, and I didn’t make big money or anything like that. I wasn’t a good business person, but I knew how to help people. That’s really what happened but fast forward, ended up learning internet marketing and product creation and we had reached a point where our business was starting to take off. We still weren’t making a lot of money, but we were doing okay, and I noticed, and this is a company called Traffic Geyser at the time which was one of the first marketing platforms you could put your video inside this tool and press a button and it would distribute it online and you get traffic from Google and the other search engines.


So, started studying, paying attention to what my clients and customers were doing and we put together an offer and we did a product launch and it made some okay money and then I ended up meeting people like Frank Kern and Andy Jenkins and Jeff Walker and Eben Pagan, some of the earlier guys and became good friends with them and we soon started working together and finally did a product launch. And what wound up happening next is I can remember I got a call from one of my bookkeepers at the time. He says, “Mike, I got some good news for you,” and I said, “What’s that?” And he told me what the good news was, and I was like, “Oh my God.”


So, I picked up the phone. I called up my mom and my mom says, “Honey, what is it?” I go, “Well, mom,” and I actually started to cry. I mean, uncontrollable sobs where I was crying, and I said, “Do you remember how I used to say I want to make a million dollars someday?” She said, “Yeah, I do.” And I said, “Well mom, I just made a million dollars in a month.” And she goes, “That’s great, honey. You know what, your dad’s out right now.  He’s shoveling the driveway. Why don’t you – I’ll go get him and you can tell him the good news.” So, I could hear my mom kind of turn and she said, “Bernie, Mike’s got something that he wants to tell you.” So, my dad got on my phone and he goes, “What is it, son?” I told him. I said, “Dad, I made a million dollars,” and he goes, “That’s great, son. Well, the grandkids are coming over in a little while and we’re going to have lunch over here and we’re really happy for you. What is it exactly that you do again?”


So, my parents don’t care about money. I grew up thinking about it all the time worried about scarcity and I was always in the state of fear and I didn’t understand just how valuable and important and incredible that I just had a good family with good parents and they didn’t care about stuff. That’s why they didn’t focus on it but me, I was in this place a lot. I didn’t get it but anyway, what wound up happening next was they went off and it was like I’m wondering and I kind of felt weird because like my parents don’t get, they don’t understand really what I do. They know I do stuff with computers and kind about marketing, but it just isn’t their world but one thing I left out here is when I told my mom that I made a million dollars I said, “The best thing is I know how to do it again. I figured out.” She said, “Wow. That’s really great. Really proud of you.” So, anyway, fast forward. It was four months later, we had put together a new product launch, a new marketing program.


Hal: What year was this by the way? What year is this?


Mike: The first one was in 2007. It was 2007 or 2008 and then it was four months later so that was in November and if you fast forward to it was either March or May. I can’t remember exactly what it was. We had done what became one of the largest launches in internet marketing history with something called Main Street Marketing Machines. It was one of the first consulting businesses in a box basically and put together this launch. Again, a lot of great people and we pushed basically the start button on the launch, got it all promoting. We had all these people lined up to start promoting us and get this thing going. And what happened next is we got in so many sales that in 44 minutes I got a call or a text actually from my bookkeeper and he says, “Great news,” and what came across my phone was amazing.


So, again, I picked up the phone, called up my mom and I said, “Hey, mom.” And she says, “What is it, honey?” I said, “Remember how I called the other day I told you we had made a million dollars?” Well, it turned out it was a week at a time that the whole period took over, but it was over a period of a month. I said, “Well, I just got a text message. We just made a million dollars in 44 minutes.” And my mom said, “Wow. Honey, that’s really great. This is a lot better than a week isn’t it?” I said, “Yes, it is. Remember I told you we figured out how to do it? Well, I did it again.” And so same thing my mom said, “Well, your dad’s out in the garden. Let me go get him and you could tell him the good news.” My dad got on the phone and he said, “What is it, son?” I told him, “Well, I made a million dollars in 44 minutes,” and he goes, “That’s great. We’re really proud of you. Grandkids are coming over for lunch in a little while. We’re going to take care of them,” but anyway we’re talking a little bit small talk.


And I got another text message just like 20 something minutes later. It was an hour and 14 minutes in the call or a minute and 14 seconds rather or it was an hour and 14 minutes after the launch happened we’d hit $2 million in sales and that launch went on to generate $9 million and it was amazing. It was not only a record breaker but it became a legend in our business for a long time, the whole idea that people at the time didn’t think that internet marketing was a real business, capable of generating real income and revenue but it was kind of like what Bitcoin is today but it rocked the world and it changed my life but it also set a bunch of other things in motion that would show up for years later in my life as well. It’s just again what do you value? It’s during that time I was so busy pursuing the money and the speaking and the fame and the fortune that went along with it. I wasn’t present with my little boy or my wife.


And so, there were parts of my life that were falling apart or at least just I wasn’t paying attention to the minutes that go by. I wasn’t living that cats in the cradle consciously, but I certainly feel I do now. So, that’s the best way of summing this up and setting up the story is great news is I figured out a formula and it was repeatable. I think looking back it’s not that I have regrets but I didn’t see things through the lens that I do now and see the beauty and the love and understand what I have and what I had to lose until it’s starting to fade. And that’s the transitional time I’ve been in lately where I’m rethinking every part where I spend my time and what matters most and who matters most.


Hal: Yeah. Well, and that’s the question that for me, for my cancer journey was what matters most and I ask that every day. What matters most in life, what matters most in my business, what matters most in this conversation, what matters most to be the best dad, the best husband and I think that we’re a cautionary tale for we’re not the only ones but a cautionary tale for entrepreneurs out there that are workaholics and that are putting the business before their rest, their rejuvenation, their health, their family because it seems to be that if you don’t slow down and prioritize what matters most, life seems to throw cancer at you or some other whether it’s a physical ailment or something to teach you the lesson.


It’s like if you’re not going to learn the lesson in a healthy proactive way, life seems to force it on you and so I feel like we have an opportunity to inspire other people especially entrepreneurs or just anybody to really to look at what matters most and look at your schedule and make sure that you are living in alignment with what matters most because it’s one thing to say, “Well, yeah, I have a family of course. Yeah. I have a family. Of course.” But then you look at your schedule if it doesn’t line up, well, it’s like, “Well, your schedule doesn’t reflect that priority. It doesn’t seem to be – there’s no truth there.” So, yeah, man. So, you helped teach me that and I’m thankful for that and thank you for teaching other people.


Mike: Appreciate it. That’s very kind of you and, yeah, again it’s part of this journey and that itself may not be incredibly profound but what I can tell you is there have been times as a business owner when I didn’t feel it was important to talk about this kind of thing transparently and openly and I found that the more I do, the more intimate the connection becomes with my clients, my customers, the more likely they are to trust and follow me and want to be a part of my world. And also, they’re willing to pay more money as well. So, there is something to the more heart you show, the more trust you create, the more connection you create, and like I said, that itself might not be profound to a lot of people but it’s like just don’t be afraid to show that vulnerable side of yourself especially in your business.


Hal: Well, I agree. There are two quotes that I’ll point to that I think this is one of the most valuable lessons that I’ve learned really in business although it applies to life. So, Robin Sharma said, “When you’re vulnerable, people fall in love with you.” And most of us are afraid to be vulnerable because we misinterpret how other people we think they’re going to respond which is, “Oh, if I’m vulnerable then I look weak or if I’m vulnerable I feel embarrassed or if I’m vulnerable then other people are going to – they’re not going to think that I’m worthy.” So, I think that’s our human nature is to look through that lens but when Robin Sharma said that when you’re vulnerable people they fall in love with you and I translated that in my own little quote which is to give up being perfect for being authentic and then the other one is Tim Sanders, the author of Love is the Killer App and many other books.


So, that’s the one where I’m about to share. He said, “Those of us who use love as a point of differentiation in business will separate ourselves from the competition,” and I think that’s one thing that you’ve done, and I read that book, gosh, 13 years ago and I was like, “Wow, yeah. I’m going to come from a place of authenticity and love in everything that I do including business.” I’m just going to live my life the same in all facets and I think that’s something that you don’t always see. You see people out there that they market themselves in one way to appear one way and then behind closed doors, they’re jerks or whatever and I think I resonate with that about you is that you’re the same behind closed doors and you’re just as inappropriate and goofy behind closed doors as you are on the internet.


Mike: Thank you for that. Ladies and gentlemen, you’re going to be here all day. I like that. I try to be a little bit squirrely and inappropriate just to keep things mixed up and at the same time, I’ve been very sensitive to it lately because again when you’ve got a 15-year-old son he is very conscious and very sensitive of what you say and how you say it. It’s just like any teenager would be. So, my respect to him, I do my best to be brand representative as a father in and around with my boy too. Yeah.


Hal: That’s a good point is that – you and I are both pretty kind of funny, sarcastic folks but that works when you’re with other people that are other sarcastic and funny and then I’ve learned the hard way that that could really offend or send the wrong message to people that are not like that. So, what are your – I think that what we just talked about and that authenticity and that vulnerability, I think that’s one of the most important lessons that people can take away but I’d love for you to share before we conclude today, I’d love for you to share a few more, what are your best strategies and/or strategies, wrapped up the stories regarding goal achievement and then what it takes to earn your first million dollars or if somebody to be the best father or whatever like the most universal goal achieving strategies that you found effective in your life and your business?


Mike: Sure. Well, the biggest thing that consistently worked so I can give you a couple of recent ones and also long-term because I think the more tactical the better. I’ve been teaching a strategy now for a while that I think it encapsulates very much who I am as a business person and that really comes down to, well, let me put it in practical tactical terms. I have been doing a really fascinating campaign. In fact, you participated in it, Hal, with the Promote & Profit which is we did a free ticket offer and the basic idea was I reached out to speakers and people I knew and if you break this down like one of the hardest things to do as you know is put butts in seats. You fill up events.


Hal: It’s the most stressful thing I ever do in business.


Mike: It is. It’s incredibly stressful. It’s incredibly risky. It’s incredibly expensive. And keeping that machine going on an ongoing basis is it’s incredibly challenging and no one’s going to give you a break. Hotels are going to get their dime out of you any way they can. They’re going to squeeze you dry and they’re going to find a lot of ways and I can’t say anything nice about dealing with hotels from an event perspective. In fact, the reason we moved into this new studio space we have so we can actually do our own events without hotels. That’s how animate I am about it but you’ve got to find creative ways to put, to fill up events because the events are one of the most intimate ways you can start and conduct and create business as well because if you can spend a couple of days with good people, not only do you create this sense of community but this trust as well and this movement so you can make and create a movement and you can serve people so much better and also from a sales perspective they’re very, very efficient or they can be when they are properly run.


So, with that in mind, what we did this time is I went out and as a gift to our speakers who said, “Hey, well, you can give away a certain number of seats to people who you think are right fits,” and this way the email and the promotion doesn’t feel sales-y or smoochy and it’s a gift and what was crazy is it’s been one of the most successful marketing campaigns in my professional career. That was the referrals you get as a result which is just like our people whether it’s me or someone on my team will actually call up people as they register and say, “Is there someone you know who would be a right fit and who would also be a good candidate to come to this event?” It’s amazing how many referrals you get if you just ask. And so, it’s so low tech. There’s nothing fancy or breathtaking or breakthrough about that in itself except what I did a couple of years ago. It’s just start paying attention to how I build my own relationships, how I can connect with people, and imagine to get people comfortable with the idea of promoting me or my products and services and not necessarily even wanting anything as a result of that. In other words, doing it as a gift.


And it evolved into one of my most recent books and also a strategy, I call it Money Phone, and the whole idea is any time you connect with someone, what you do is you create a little tickler file meaning you write down a list of all the people that you’ve connected with and what it is what value you know you can provide it then and also how you feel you could engage them to help you grow your business. And what I do is I just create a list of those people periodically and all you do is you just go through your phone, you go through all your past text messages, people that you may have connected with, you haven’t in a while, but you know there was something there and you make a list, you prioritize it and then all at once you send each person a little text message which is, “Hi, so and so name, is there something you need from me today?” It’s open-ended and it’s purely a message designed to engage with someone. And again, it doesn’t have to come from a place of I want something from you. It needs to be a genuine I want to support you and help you but it’s a way of just saying, “Hey, I’m here and I’m thinking about you today.”


And it’s so fascinating because that little tickle if it’s done to 10 or 20 people you’d be amazed at how many opportunities you can create within about 10 or 15 minutes and there’s a big concern a lot of people have especially if they’re starting out with business which is, “Oh man, I have to have a big list or I can’t make any money,” and that nothing could be further from the truth because getting 20 people’s attention all at once and knowing they’re actually there which you can have with a text message versus sending out an email to even 10,000 people, you’re lucky if you get a 5% to 10% open rate these days with most emails. You’re lucky if you get a 10% to 20% clickthrough rate which means a list of 10,000 can actually produce fewer results than an audience of 20 people with a carefully crafted mobile text message and an opportunity to just start serving each other. And the whole point is I’ve had more impact with my most recent events by just connecting with a few people and asking them how I can serve and letting them know what I’m doing and seeing if they have any room to support or help, and you get higher quality customers.


So, the focus that I give people right now is don’t worry about volume. Worry about getting the right people who have more money, who are looking for more impact and they will gladly pay you a lot more. It’s fewer people for more money is the best business formula I have ever seen and I’m focusing 90% of my energy on that myself in addition to teaching it. But bringing this all back around to this Money Phone strategy, what I wound up doing is I created like a mini-documentary of exactly how I rustle up and wrangle business myself. I turned it into a manual and then I turned it into a book and I start giving it away and it has become one of the best lead generators for me but it’s also one of the best social proof tools I have because I give that thing away and people start copying and pasting the scripts I give them and, boom, they’re closing deals and I’m getting these great, great messages like, “I just closed a $10,000 deal and I just used Money Phone to do it.” Or, “I closed a $25,000 deal and I’ve never closed anything that big before.” It’s just like it created a little movement. So, it’s something I’m super proud of and the whole point of this is don’t be afraid to focus on fewer people, make it more personal, and connect with value and you’ve got to have a system to make that work but that’s basically the little system that I developed and it works like crazy hell so I don’t know if that was useful to you or not but great little tool.


Hal: Yeah. No, I mean, I think a couple of the lessons that I draw from that is, number one, is adding value first. You mentioned that like you’re giving away the free tickets and I know you made that offer to me to give tickets to our Miracle Morning Community and we gave out at least a handful of free tickets to the event which is cool so we’ll see some of our members will be there in May and so that’s the first thing is to lead with value. And for whether you’re in internet marketing or any type of business I think that often we have that scarcity mindset that you grew up with, right, which is how can I need to extract every possible penny from every penny and it’s just this really like this fear of never being able to have enough so you always are thinking of how can I get, how can I get, how can I get?


And when you shift that and you kind of shift an abundant mindset you go, “How can I give?” And knowing that when you give value first, you build loyalty with people, you build trust with people and you all of a sudden build credibility with people. They go, “Wow, your free thing was awesome. What else do you have?” And then they go further with you. And for me, when before I wrote Miracle Morning or when I first wrote the first two chapters, I had for the first couple of chapters up online and it was like people could download them for free and people were – it was three years later that I finally wrote the book but I had 10,000 people that had downloaded the two chapters and now they’re like, “We want the book,” like we’re practicing the Miracle Morning but we don’t fully have it so you’re giving that value first. And then the second lesson that I got was with your Money Phone strategy which is like you said less people and really quality connection over quantity of connection. Yeah. Really, really great. So, let’s wrap up with just your event is coming up, Promote & Profit. I will be speaking there on I believe I’m there, am I there May 7 or May 9? May 9 I think.


Mike: On the 9th, on the third day.


Hal: Speaking on the 9th on the third day. Take a minute to tell our listeners if they’re in San Diego or going to make a flight at San Diego and they want to see me, and I saw you got a bunch of killer speakers on the program. Or was it JJ Virgin? Our girl JJ Virgin is there and it’s Ben Hardy, author of Willpower Doesn’t Work which I love his new book.  He’ll be there. Go ahead.


Mike: Yeah. Well, I’ll do that and might as well give everyone Money Phone. As long as I talk about it, I can give that away too. Everyone can have a copy of it for free because otherwise, I don’t want to leave that out there. So, here’s the quick pitch with Promote & Profit. What it really revolves around I think the best way to sum this up is after working with now 54,000 customers in 121 different countries, there’s one thing that when you understand this big concept which you understand really, really well, your life changes forever which is ultimately everyone’s looking for a way to work less and make more and be valued for what they do or if you’re going to work less, it means work with it not feeling like work. We all want to feel like we’re making an impact without happening to just be part of a grind. So, the big idea is something we call platform.  


So, one of the things we’re doing, and this is actually new, Hal. I ended up really thinking about what would I have the most value to see, then I created something I called a Platform Profit Playbook which is a step-by-step fill-in-the-blanks roadmap to help you figure out how to build what we call your platform which a lot of people use books or they speak but if you look at people like JJ Virgin or Dave Asprey or Tony Robbins or Tim Ferriss or Brendon Burchard, for example, they all have a really powerful platform and there are just six steps to that. It’s getting authority, boosting your influence, charging more, working less, building and growing an audience but the sixth one is really learning how to give back and you’re great at that. It’s how do you create a connection with your audience through philanthropy and charitable giving. So, Promote & Profit is all about building your platform, focusing on those six steps and one of the reasons you’re there is to talk about how you’ve used books to do that. Dave is there talking about how he uses authentic messages to create brands. This is Dave Asprey. JJ is going to talk about how to create a hook and Hardy’s going to talk about how he writes articles on free platforms to generate lots of traffic.


And we’ve got other amazing, amazing speakers there too and then from there, we’re going to show you how to do it yourself, how to build your platform so that you can ultimately work less, make more, and have a lot more impact in the world. So, it’s pretty easy to find details on that and that is at YouEverwhereNow.com/PromotandProfit. And anyone who followed your messages when we did the free ticket promo can find out some more information that way. So, that’s the first one and then if they want a copy of Money Phone, the book. You just go to www.GoMoneyPhone.com. It’s free. I give the book away just because I found that it’s a great way to get introduced to folks and the best gift I can give someone or get a return is someone saying, “Hey, Mike, I use the strategy and I closed to $10,000 deal this week. Thanks for that.” It’s a great way to build trust and connection.


Hal: Yeah and it’s win-win. It’s like you talked about adding value first and then you build loyalty, you build trust, you build a fan, you build credibility, and then if that works, if the free gift works and they get value from that and they go, “Shoot, I wonder if I went to his event. If the free stuff is good, the event has got to be amazing.” So, cool. Now well for anybody listening, that is YouEverywhereNow.com/PromoteandProfit. Is that right, Mike?


Mike: That is correct.


Hal: I got that right. YouEverywhereNow.com/PromoteandProfit. I will be there speaking on May 9 and before that on the 7th and the 8th in San Diego you heard Dave Asprey of Bulletproof Coffee JJ Virgin. Who else? Benjamin Hardy who his new book Will Power Doesn’t Work is phenomenal and he’s the number one writer in the world on Medium.com since 2015 and his articles have been viewed over 50 million times. So, yeah, these are people that you want to learn from. And Shawn Stevenson. You even got Shawn there.


Mike: Shawn. We’ve got Roland Frasier from War Room and Digital Marketer. Bedros Keuilian is there.


Hal: Ed Rush. Dana Malstaff.


Mike: Dana Malstaff, Ed Rush. Yeah. Michael Bernoff. My wife is speaking, Vivian Glyck about nonprofits and charitable. I got Donna Fox from WebinarJam, EverWebinar, Jon Benson, the copywriter, Per Bristow who is a vocal trainer and coach and then Jesse Doubek is a Facebook expert. He actually helped build Brendon Burchard’s light campaign. It’s over 5 million people so rock star speaker presenters and they’re just there to add value.


Hal: Great lineup, man.


Mike: I’m really looking forward to, yeah. It’s where I really called in a lot of favors from really smart, good friends and I said, “Can you come speak at this, add some value? And you know I’m there for you when you want to,” and that’s what we did. So, if you had to pay any of these people to get them to either coach you or consult with you, they charge a lot of money so you’re getting them for, I mean, it’s such a good deal and the curriculum what we put together in terms of curriculum for this. I’m super proud of. I surely believe it’ll be the best event that I have ever produced.


Hal: Cool. Well, thank you for inviting me to speak there, man. I’m looking forward to it.


Mike: It’s my pleasure and thank you.


Hal: Achieve Your Goals Podcast listeners, you have been listening to my conversation with Mike Koenigs, good friend of mine, cancer survivor, and one of the founders of online internet marketing before it was a thing, before anybody else was doing it. He was one of the like the first, blazing the trail, and now he’s blazing the trail, still doing that the business side but I really where I love Mike is how he really as a dad, as a husband, as a human really that’s where it’s like you shine, Mr. Koenig, so love you, brother.


Mike: Love you too, man. Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.


Hal: All right, everybody. Take care, Achieve Your Goals podcast listeners. We will talk to you next week.





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Karen Briscoe - Hal Elrod - Achieve Your Goals

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 I never used to think I was a “salesperson” until I realized we are all born with the ability to sell, and selling is a skill that benefits all of us. Think about it…

As children, we were always trying to sell our parents on letting us eat candy, stay up late, have our friends sleep over, you name it. Now we’re always selling others on our ideas, and most importantly, on ourselves.

Today’s guest, Karen Briscoe, is an expert when it comes to selling. Karen and her team have been recognized by the Wall Street Journal as one of the 250 Top Realtor® teams in the United States, and they have sold more than 1,000 homes valued at over $1 billion.

In today’s conversation, Karen shares her story and breaks down the framework that led to creating an exceptionally successful business, based on—you got it—selling.

This discussion will highlight some of the most important habits you can implement to achieve success at the highest level. If you’re an entrepreneur, you’ll especially appreciate the simple, yet effective sales principles that Karen outlines for generating leads, tracking results, overcoming rejection and ultimately growing your business.


  • How to make sure you’re creating something that people will actually value and buy.
  • The fundamental keys to building a successful and sustainable business.
  • The highly effective habits that contributed to Karen’s success and the #1 source to becoming a lifelong learner.   
  • Lead generation tips and tricks from a seasoned sales veteran!  
  • Using the principles of sales activity tracking to achieve any goal.  
  • How to create a resilient mindset and overcome rejection.



If you enjoyed this post and received value from this episode, please leave a quick comment below and SHARE with your friends. Thank YOU for paying it forward! :^)

COMMENT QUESTION: What is your big takeaway? Write it in the comments below.


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[read more=”Click Here to Read the Transcript” less=”Read Less”] 



[00:00:31] Jon: All right. Welcome, everybody, to our Achieve Your Goals Podcast episode. Hey, before I introduce our guest, Karen Briscoe, who is a member of our Quantum Leap Mastermind who I first met at our Best Year Ever Blueprint live event, just a couple of quick commercial announcements. First of all, our seats for the Best Year Ever Blueprint event where I first met Karen are quickly filling up so November 17, 18, 19 at the Manchester Grand Hyatt in San Diego. If you intend on joining us in San Diego, make sure you take a look at the website BestYearEverLive.com. It’s our flagship event that we put on every year. It sells out every year and if you’re interested in joining, make sure you go reserve your seat because it’s going to be an incredible event, November 17, 18, 19 in San Diego.


So, that’s the only commercial I want to give at the moment and now I’m going to shift gears to our guest today, Karen Briscoe, who is one of our Quantum Leap Mastermind members. That’s a private mastermind group that Hal Elrod and I have been running for about four years now and Karen is the author of Real Estate Success in 5 Minutes a Day: Secrets of a Top Agent Revealed. She’s been in real estate since right out of college. She was in commercial real estate. She’s won a number of awards and has been highly successful and I’m super pumped to bring her to this community through this podcast because I know there’s going to be some great wisdom, some practical wisdom that we can all benefit from. So, I’m ready to jump in. Karen, you look great on the webinar. Are you ready to go?




[00:02:15] Karen: Here we are. Let’s do it.


[00:02:16] Jon: I got to tell everybody too. Before we started recording, I was complimenting how on the video, your background looks a lot cleaner than mine does and you pointed out that in real estate these things matter. And if you don’t mind, I got to share people your comment about my background because I was pointing out that as I’m looking at the background on the video, if you watch this in the live stream like the background almost looks really cool and then I find a way to muck it up with these posters that are sideways. And, Karen, you in the most endearing way you said, “Oh, well that’s the way you would do it, Jon. It’s your style.” So, I love it. I love it. Hey, tell us, Karen, about your relationship with Hal Elrod and how you meeting him and you writing your book are all connected together because you’ve got a really cool story and I think it would be fun for people to hear that connection.


[00:03:16] Karen: Oh, I’m delighted to share the story because it really was life transforming. As often happens, when people achieve success at a high level, a lot of people want to know how you do it and over and over again, some coaching and training and a blog that I have for a number of years, it kept coming up that I should write a book. There are lot of real estate books out there so I was like, “Okay. I’m not going to write another real estate book.” So, I had this epiphany, this brilliant idea that it would have a different format. A lot of real estate agents that actually salespeople in general are very easily distracted. We call it the squirrel or the shiny objects syndrome. They’re off to the next thing. So, getting them to focus on their personal and business development to stay the course, they often would get distracted and not stay with it and they felt like they didn’t have time to read or to work on their personal development.


So, I had this, I’d ask them, “What can you do at five minutes a day?” And most people say, “Yes, I can devote five minutes a day to my personal and business development.” I’m like, “Okay. Well, so if I wrote a book where it was in a daily reader style which is very common for motivational and inspirational reader, well, if I did that and merged it with business concepts and personal development concepts where literally if you write a page a day, over a year you would have all this acquired knowledge in the real estate world. Would you do it?” And over and over again people said they would. So, I started talking with people that have written real estate books and been successful and one person I chatted with was Pat Hiban. And Pat said, “You need to meet Hal Elrod because Hal has a book called the Miracle Morning,” and I did not even know about the Miracle Morning until Pat told me about him.


[00:05:17] Karen: So, I actually wrote the book mostly because of the Miracle Morning in the sense that I felt like I never had time myself to devote to writing a book so I committed to getting up an hour early every day. And that is when and how I wrote my book. So, I felt like I was on this mission to meet Hal Elrod and it seemed like one of those comedies where every time I was – I should’ve met him and like it didn’t happen until Kristin Brindley was having Hal come to Maryland to speak and I, in typical Hal Elrod format, I got up early and I made sure I was there when he arrives so that I can meet him and that was such an amazing experience with him being very gracious and agreed to endorse my book. And it really does fit in very well with the Miracle Morning SAVERS. Hal has endorsed my book and so has Michael Maher who did the Miracle Morning for Real Estate Agents. So, that’s the journey to Best Year Ever because then of course Hal could leave it at that. He’s like, “No. You have to come to Best Year Ever.” So, here I am because of all of that.


[00:06:35] Jon: That’s awesome. Karen, as you shared that story and in a second here I want to ask you to share because you’ve been really successful in your career and you’re humble about it but I want to make sure that we hear from you some of your best advice on achieving goals. And before you share that, I just want to drive everybody’s attention. I don’t know if everybody caught this but, Karen, just when you’re sharing that story, there’s a few things that stand out that I just want to really support and magnify for everybody. So, the first thing is the way that you approached writing your book, it’s so easy to overlook something that you said which was you listened to your customers. I was actually just on somebody else’s podcast a few minutes ago where we were talking about this except idea, the idea of like when you create something, how do you make sure you’re creating something that people might buy and you’re pointing out a big part of the answer which is ask the people that you want to be selling it to what they want. And that can sound obvious but it’s so easy to overlook how important that is and what I love about what you shared is they gave you the answer. They gave you the signals and it sent you in a direction where you knew you could sell the books. And the other thing, Karen, that you said, that again it’s so easy to overlook this, but I think there’s so much wisdom, sometimes in these profoundly simple ideas but you said it as though it’s second nature is if I’m going to do something, let me go talk to those who have been successful.


[00:08:17] Karen: Yeah.


[00:08:17] Jon: Right? Let me not talk to others who are trying to figure out how to do it but talk to people who have been successful. So, I just want to call that out. And a quick shout out before we come back to having you share some of your best tips on goal achievement but you stumbled across Pat Hiban who he has become a great mutual friend and mentor for a number of us. And for those of you that don’t know, he is one of the founders of the GoBundance community which I love the work that they do. It’s a men’s group and they’re an incredible group where they are helping people in all areas of their lives. So, that’s kind of fun. I did not realize it was Pat that connected you.


[00:08:57] Karen: It’s Pat, yes. And he also has a Real Estate Rockstar podcast and he has a book himself quite successful I bet. That was the first step I took was to talk to people that have gone before and had achieved and to learn from them because I felt like they would, clearly in my real estate success, I recognize that early on in my career and so I felt like, okay, I’m going into this new area of writing a book which I felt like for sale by owner, I knew nothing.


[00:09:31] Jon: Nice.


[00:09:31] Karen: I was like I’m going to go to the people who actually have expertise in this.


[00:09:35] Jon: Well, tell us a little bit about you have an awarded career. You’ve done exceptionally in your field, the top percent of percent of everybody that attempts to do what you do. What are some of the big lessons that you’ve learned about goal achievement? To broad topics, you can approach it any way you want.


[00:09:56] Karen: Well, it really is attainable. I mean success is attainable but it also is part of what Hal teaches and that is that not everybody will do it because it often requires following some that are setting up good habits. Many people think that they’re going to just will succeed or achieve success by luck or happen chance. There really is a matter of habit. And the beauty of habit is that once you have established it, then it will propel you into it just like the writing of the book. I’ve made a habit of getting up an hour early and by that habit was able to write the book in nine months period of time. In terms of the structure of the book, Real Estate Success in 5 Minutes a Day, even though every day is different, it does have a format because as you said, there are key fundamentals to success and this isn’t just for real estate but it actually applies in many areas of business and life.


And the first one is everybody needs to have a lead or commit to get leads in order to have something to do. And it’s obvious, almost seems obvious in the sales world but it actually applies in other areas as well. So, I say like my dentist, until my dentist has a patient, he doesn’t have anything to do. He doesn’t have anything to practice industry on. Churches, if they don’t have people come in the doors, they call it evangelism. They don’t call it lead generation but they don’t have anything to do. So, the first step in almost every endeavor is to have, I mean, okay, universities, schools, you have to have students, right, or you have to have people that participate in your coaching program, more people who in your – we think of it again very commonly in sales.


[00:11:55] Karen: We don’t realize that everybody actually is in that lead generation business. Then what happens is you have that lead or you have that patient or you have that student, you have to do something with that. You have to we call it a transaction in our business but in your field, you’re teaching or coaching or encouraging or moving them through some sort of program and what often happens is that their people become very good at the actual process and they oftentimes will get stuck in what I call this transactional loop so they’ll get a lead and then they’ll get that lead to settlement, they’ll get it through the process but then they wake up and they got nothing to do. So, they go get another lead and then they go do it all over again and they get stuck. They’re only as good as their next program or next transaction is sold.


And so, then that’s where the third component of what comes out of the success principles are connecting the building and growing. So, in order to sustain on a long-term pattern in business or for churches, they have to sustain as well. I mean many of them close down because they don’t do anything to keep the members that they have. Schools are the same way. I mean, we see schools that close as well. We see dental practices that close because they don’t get the patients to come back. So, there are things that businesses or organizations do to sustain, to connect, to build and grow and that all that comes together what I call the sweet spot of success. I use a Venn diagram so, the math major in me, when they all come together that’s where the convergence habit is the sweet spot and it’s all surrounded by mindset or success thinking activities and vision because it is with that then you’re able to really achieve at a high level.


[00:13:57] Jon: I like this a lot. Hey, a shout out to those of you that are watching live and please don’t hesitate any ahas that you have. Just post them in the comments as we go through our conversation here. So, Karen, I want to come back to a few of these things that you shared here and I’d love to get your wisdom diving into a few of these whether it’s about habits or lead generation and I love the point that you’re making. It’s so simple but it can be so important that to remind ourselves that as entrepreneurs you gotta have somebody to sell to. Some people call that managing your funnel or your pipeline and folks who market things on the Internet, that industry people have gotten really clear on this reality that it’s like a math equation. I get enough people in the entry of the funnel, somebody’s going to buy something but I’m glad that you’re talking about dentists and schools and churches because you’re reminding us that it doesn’t matter what kind of work we do. If I’m an entrepreneur of any kind, I’ve got to constantly have a focus. I cannot take my eye off of how many people are being brought into the front end of my funnel.


So, I’d love to talk about some of the things you’ve learned about that through real estate that might apply to others but I want to go all the way back to even just the idea about habits. In your experience, what are some of the types of habits that have been most important for you to be successful and I’d also be curious to know what have you learned about being able to change habits or develop new habits? Because I think of myself all the time and I think I have certain habits that have gotten me really far and I guess I’m fortunate that I have those habits. I also have certain habits that a day doesn’t go by where I don’t think, “Gosh, I’d be better off if I stopped doing this or started doing this.”


[00:15:52] Karen: Oh, we all have that.


[00:15:53] Jon: Yeah. So, I’d love to know what have you learned about how to tune into more of the good ones and tune out the ones that don’t help us and what have been some of your habits that have gotten you to where you’re at?


[00:16:04] Karen: Well, Jon, I mean that’s a human condition and actually that’s what keeps us humble, right? I would say one of the habits is being a lifelong learner. So, if you’re a lifelong learner then you realize that you’re on the road to perfection and you’re not going to achieve it and so you live into that and that is certainly something that Hal in the whole Miracle Morning and the reading component and the scribing or the journaling component to take your experiences and to learn from them but also to learn from others. There’s an article and it just came out in Inc. Magazine about what they call and it came from Benjamin Franklin that why constant learners they set up this time or set aside this time for doing that, and that I have to confess, it’s been kind of a piecemeal. It’s been constant but it’s been a little, it’s been piecemeal and it’s become more, I’m more committed to it and more proactive about it as I’ve gone into this next area of my life because there are many opportunities to reinvent ourselves when I look at my career. The world is going to change whether we keep up or whether we do anything or not. So, just staying current with the rapidly changing world is I think that being a lifelong learner is one of the key aspects or key habits.


[00:17:34] Jon: So, I want to comment about this and just converse with you about this. So, I personally have long felt that in terms of all of the values that we could live out especially as an entrepreneur, I’ve always believed that curiosity in a real authentic curiosity is maybe one of the most important. And I’ve noticed that those who I respect and learn from when I ask them the question what matters most, their answer is exactly what you shared which is lifelong learning which I believe comes from a place of authentic curiosity and I’m so glad to hear that, Karen, that that’s your response to what are the habits that matter most.


And one idea that I’d love to just react to what you shared and share with everybody on that is that being a lifelong learner and having what I call an insatiable curiosity is something that can be nurtured. It’s not something that you either have or you don’t have. It’s something that can be stimulated and for me, personally, one of my first mentors, Dan Casetta, used to teach me that my life was always going to be a reflection of what I’ve learned and that would always be true. And that always stimulated me. And one of the things that I have loved is that I’ve noticed when I learn something, it’s like I discover something that is never going to be taken away from me and now my view of the world is never the same. My capability is never the same but it can be stimulated by genuinely asking ourselves, “What am I learning right now? What’s happening around me? What can I be discovering right now that maybe I wasn’t seeing before?” And there’s a lot of ways I think to stimulate that learning but I just want to point out that I think it’s easy for people to proclaim that they value lifelong learning.


[00:19:34] Jon: But as you pointed out, Karen, it can be a habit that gets deepened and so I think some people want to be lifelong learners and then there are others who actually they walk around in a permanent state of curiosity and that is very different. That’s authentic and you said a word earlier. You said a word, and the word that you said that I think is at the source of what creates a lifelong learner is it’s the source of curiosity, it’s humility. And it’s not until we are willing to acknowledge that there is this almost infinite depth of knowledge and wisdom that is always still out there for us that we actually come from that place of walking insatiable curiosity. So, I love hearing that as a habit that you consider to be important. You talked a minute ago about lead generation. Do you have any wisdom you can share with us as many of us are entrepreneurs on just fundamentals of generating leads regardless of business or industry that we’re in, things you’ve learned about that?


[00:20:51] Karen: Well, I do. One of the things that happened to me recently was I was doing a training and this actually applies so across industry but the topic is called Commit to get Leads and this young man is in an ancillary industry. He actually is with a junk company or a company that helps clean up houses. And he said, “I didn’t know I was supposed to commit to get leads,” and he said, “Once I decided to commit to get leads,” he said his business quadrupled. So, I would say first of all commit to the process. That’s a mindset to say I am committed to get leads. And then my next tip along that is to set a number. So, many people trained on time blocking and I think that there is value in that. I’m not discounting that but what I find is that a lot of people commit the time or they say they’ve committed the time but then they don’t actually use the time to lead generating. I have a story. Our daughter had learning disabilities when she was younger and so we had sent her to a tutor and she would come out after an hour and I’d say, “Well so, what did you learn? Did you get your homework done?” She said, “No, I didn’t get my homework.” “Well, what did you learn?” “Nothing.” And I’m like, “Well, what did you do for that hour?”


And I find that that happens a lot of times with people who say they’re committing to lead generate but if they’re not seeing the productivity out of it then I’m like, “Okay. Well, try activity blocking.” An activity blocking is you select a number and you commit to that number and once you’ve talked to that number or met with that number or what, if you’re setting up a sales funnel then you have drawn in that number or attracted that number, that gives you something that you can actually track and you can see where your business is coming from and you actually have, you know what numbers you need to achieve in order to achieve the goals that you have established for yourself. So, that would be a couple of my tips that are in the book and that I would share for lead generation.


[00:23:03] Jon: You just described, it was funny, the scene here at FLI this week. I’ve been kind of out of the office not necessarily physically but mentally for the last six weeks because we had two major conventions that we were designing and facilitating. And so, we have long known on our team here that as soon as we got through these big events, we were going to go into a sales season where and I’m a more primary sales person at the moment where I was going to drive sales into our next certification. We certify people in how to do what we do.


[00:23:36] Karen: So, you do lead generation too.


[00:23:38] Jon: Oh, I do. Well, here’s what’s so funny is as you’re talking about this and my team sitting right here, we literally started the week and I said to our team, I’m like, “We got to have a goal this week and my goal is I need to talk to 14 people and I think I’ll sell seven of them.” Well, I ended up talking to 10 or 11 and I sold eight so I beat my number. But literally, I still lived that today and I love the way you describe that and that’s kind of how we operate here. It’s like we know that we need to commit. I mean we were literally at one point I’m walking around the office digging through business cards. It’s like, “Wait a minute, I know there are some people who said they want this stuff. Let’s go find who it is we’re supposed to sell to,” and I love that focus on remembering that it’s a numbers game.


You know, that’s something that Hal was exceptional at as a Cutco sales rep. And when Hal and I lived together and we sold knives and we competed, one of the things that Hal is known for is he turned the whole prospecting thing into a game and he was so good at being detached from the results and being committed to the process. And he would tell himself, “It’s a game. I’m just committing to making 20 phone calls or 40 phone calls,” whatever it was, and he got so good at letting go of the emotion because he knew that he could make 40 calls and nothing could happen but he knew that in the long run that averages would play out. He and I had a shared mentor who used to say, “If you commit to consistent activity and say you can have a bad day and you can have a bad week,” but in that business, he would say, “You cannot have a bad month if you commit to the process and forget about the results,” which is one way of putting it all but that’s kind of what you’re talking about.


[00:25:25] Karen: Well, and I still do it. So, you said 15 years so 15 years I had committed my very first week, in fact, I have it and I’ll show it in training my very first week in August of 2002 and I’ve written one through 25 and I can track the business that came out of that week and the repeat clients and I know exactly what generates business. And there are lots of benefits to activity tracking. One is you can do what’s called frontloading so you can work ahead and you could also backfill. You really can’t do that with time because once time is passed, it’s passed. The other benefit is that if you want to up your production, you know what level, what number of calls or what number of activities will generate that business and so you can adjust accordingly. Time again, once it’s passed it’s passed and I agree with you that there is some game element to it. In fact, I call it game application but I look at it more as there’s something very empowering by actually writing down that you have done something that it cements in your brain that you have accomplished something. And so, there are lots of reasons why activity tracking works and it seems like you picked up on that.


[00:26:47] Jon: In my own awkward way. Yeah.


[00:26:49] Karen: Yes.


[00:26:50] Jon: I have my own notepad that says, “We need 14 meetings so I can close seven,” and we had ten and I closed eight.


[00:26:56] Karen: And if your numbers aren’t what you want them to be then you also could then know, “Oh, maybe I need to be working on my conversion or my consulting techniques,” because if you find that your numbers aren’t in line with industry standards or what you want in terms of your achievements then you can seek out training or coaching to improve those skills.


[00:27:20] Jon: Yeah. As we’re sitting here talking about this, Karen, I’m realizing something that I wouldn’t say I’ve taken for granted but I’ve never publicized it really. When I look at the experience that I’d gained working with Cutco Cutlery as a young person, one of the things they do phenomenally as a company, and it’s how it is, their entire company is run by 18-year-olds selling hundreds of millions of dollars of knives. Literally, it’s all 18-year-olds and one of the reasons why they are so good as a company is because part of their culture, they’ve got a fantastic culture of lifelong learning but another part of their culture that doesn’t get as much recognition, I don’t think people realize this, but they track everything. If you go talk to a manager of a Cutco office, I mean, they know how many incoming recruiting phone calls or outgoing happened every day. If you said two months ago on this day they could go back and they could tell you this is how many calls came in, this is how many we made, this is how many we’re set for the interview, this is how many showed for the interview, this is how many showed for training. To many of you depending on your industry like we all do that.


But I think there’s a lot of people who get into entrepreneurship and they don’t realize the level at which tracking these things is actually a good idea. That Cutco manager he’s going to tell you how many showed to training, how many showed on the first, second, third day, what the average person sells in their first three days, their first 10 days, their first two weeks. Literally, every one of those data points that I’m mentioning, every manager has an exact number that they could tell you on the spot and so that’s how they have 18-year-olds running a several-hundred-million-dollar business and that’s what you’re talking about and I think a lot of people can take for granted. Even if you’re listening to this and you just want to lose weight or if some other goal, what are the things that all impact that, the dominoes that you could be tracking? There’s a saying and I’m probably going to butcher it and whatever, you could fix it for me, Karen, but it’s a track coach at Stanford that is credited for being the one that made this popular. It’s the idea that performance monitored equals performance improved. It’s the whole idea that when you start to put attention on something that’s like the simplest way to improve it is to just put attention on it.


[00:29:41] Karen: Well, you said 15 years so 15 years in the business I still track it. So, it’s not like I stopped tracking it when I achieved success. I believe that the achieving of the success, that’s why I love the topic of this podcast or the title of it, Achieve Your Goals Podcast, so you said, “Well, what are some of the ways that you have achieved success at a high level in business and life?” One of the ways I’ve achieved it is by tracking because by tracking then again you have so that you know what your conversion numbers are. I know what my conversion numbers are. When my conversion numbers consistently or not in line then I’m going, okay, there are some that’s kind of like you’re watching your oil in your car, whatever you like. Okay. It’s time to take the car in. It’s time to perhaps I need some coaching in this. Perhaps I need some training in this. And without that, you’re just trying to determine what it is that you could do to achieve at a higher level. If you don’t know what, then how would you know what to do or where to begin?


[00:30:44] Jon: Yeah. Karen, one of the things that you said earlier that I have so much respect and appreciation for you, for having succeeded in a career in the long run because – and I respect anybody who succeeds as an entrepreneur or in sales and one of the reasons why is because I know how much of a toll it can take, mentally and emotionally. And you mentioned earlier that for you like a centerpiece of success is the ability to manage our mindset. And I would love to get some of your advice on managing that mindset on how to be resilient in the face of adversity. Because in your career, you have dealt with a ton of it and I think it’s something that any of us can constantly be learning about. So, any ideas that you could give us in what you’ve learned in that area?


[00:31:38] Karen: Well, I would say that our industry is very personal because a person’s home is their castle, a person’s home is their – the whole endowment effect I’m sure you’ve heard about when people own something then they give more value to it. It’s not a commodity anymore for them. It’s also very emotional many times because they often are going through another significant life event in addition to buying and selling a home. It could be a positive one, a baby is coming on the way. It could also be divorce or death or other things that cause people to make a move. And oftentimes, working with friends or people that I know, people in my church or community, it becomes very personal.


So, one of our mantras is from the movie, You’ve Got Mail, I’m sure you may remember that movie where Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan and she’s the big bad bookstore which is Tom Hanks character is. Her small bookstore is going out of business. So, they’re indicating online and he says, “It’s not personal. It’s business.” So, that’s one of the mantras that we incorporate in our group and our team when something happens and it seems like it could be something that you might take personally, we remind each other this is business. It’s not personal. So, you talked about the rejection aspect. That is frequently common. Statistically, a third of the people that you either go on an appointment on to show or to help them sell their home or to help them buy a home, a third will go to someone else, a third won’t do anything and a third will go with you. So, it’s like baseball here already.


[00:33:38] Karen: The best in the business reach a third success ratio. So, that means you’re going to not be successful two-thirds of the time so you have to be able to manage that. Some of these little mantras we have, we also are big fans of the whole idea of I don’t know if you heard of the Presence by Amy Cuddy and she talks about the Wonder Woman pose or the – have you heard of Amy Cuddy?


[00:34:04] Jon: No. Now I want to go find out.


[00:34:05] Karen: Oh my gosh, you got to find out about this. There is something to be said about posture and carrying yourself in a positive way. It’s been shown to at least keep the mindset in a positive way. There’s all about body image in that so sometimes we’ll all get up and do our Wonder Woman poses or Superman poses as the case may be. Another technique that we found. The other thing that we do is we talk about how the person may be going through something that we may not be aware of. And so, engulf them in what we call kind of like their force shield of grace. So, we just give them a lot of grace because they must be going through something that if they weren’t under a stressful situation, they may have behaved differently. So, we just have and they’re in the book to some of these success principles that keep people. In terms of habits, I think habits are beneficial for having a good success mindset and that is the exercise, the meditation, the aspects to the SAVERS.


[00:35:16] Jon: I love this advice that you give us on not taking things personally. I don’t know if I’m very successful at it but I love the advice and one of the things I think is so helpful about it is we often when somebody rejects us in business, what you’re saying is, what we do is we mistake what they’re rejecting, right? What they’re ejecting is what we are offering and that what we do as humans is we interpret that as they’re rejecting me as a person. And I’ve seen this play out and I think this is actually a key distinction between a business owner, salesperson, entrepreneur who is not going to last and those who thrive is in that moment how do they handle it because there are really two choices. It’s if I take it personally then what I end up doing is I actually just want to defend myself and the problem with defending is now if I’m defending, I’m not learning. If I’m defending, I’m definitely not evolving. Whereas the other option is if somebody says no, instead of telling myself, “Well, I’m a bad person and they’re saying no to me,” instead, what I could ask is a question which is, “Well, why did they say no?” And maybe I can learn something. Maybe they’re saying no. It’s not me personally but it’s how I present it and it’s the way that I framed it or whether or not I did or did not handle an objection in advance. But I only learn those things and evolve if I can stay curious and I can only stay curious if I could be present enough to realize when I’m taking it personally.


[00:37:06] Karen: And sometimes you don’t know. So, that’s where you have to be able to let it go. I’ve had many times people say, “Well, I don’t want to work with a friend,” because then it may harm their friendship. I’m like, “Okay. But if you don’t work with a friend then you could harm their friendship because they’re going to be offended because you didn’t work with them.” So, in fact, I wrote a blog about it recently about that, about why work with a friend and that many reasons why people say that they don’t want to work with a friend but why work with a friend.


So, there are reasons to work with a friend because oftentimes a friend is going to have your vested interest at heart. They’re going to be very sensitive to your situation. They also could be the most likely to help you achieve your goals. I mean, if they’re the most professional, why not work with a friend? But it really does matter the response so you have no control over what they’re going to do but you do have control over how you’re going to respond. And that’s where the mindset comes in because if you have this mindset that whatever is the best for that person that they’re going to achieve it, if that involves you are not, it’s still the outcome that you want to have happened. I think they know the difference. But you know the difference even if they don’t, right?


[00:38:30] Jon: Yeah. Great advice. Karen, this is awesome. This conversation has been fantastic. Before we close here, I would just love to make sure for someone to check out your book, Real Estate Success in Five Minutes a Day, they’d find it on Amazon I presume or anywhere else.


[00:38:47] Karen: Absolutely. On Facebook and there’s a website and many of these principles that we’ve talked to, as you could tell, transcend the real estate industry. I have many business owners, entrepreneurs that are reading the book and saying, “Wow. The applications really are across industry and profession.”


[00:39:07] Jon: That’s so cool. Well, congratulations to you with the success of your book. I love that we got to connect today. I love that you are a member of our Quantum Leap Mastermind and it’s really cool that we met you through the Best Year Ever Blueprint event and ultimately it all came through somebody telling you, “You got to go meet this guy, Hal Elrod.”


[00:39:28] Karen: Yeah. He’s the one that started it all but I would say the whole Miracle Morning community and the Quantum Leap Mastermind community has been so embracing and it’s a wonderful thing that you and Hal have created and nurture and continue to take us on this journey of lifelong learning.


[00:39:49] Jon: That’s awesome. Karen, this was a pleasure. This was a privilege. Thank you for bringing your wisdom to our group today.





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